DUNE BOOK CLUB :: Week 02
October 26th, 2009 — 07:36 am
Okay, Round Two! Crazy amount of discussion for Round One, and that was for what I think is the least awesome part of the book, so that bodes well. Let’s jump right in, shall we?
I chose to break our reading up between last week and this week because of the big event that happens BETWEEN chapters–the Atreides arrive on Arrakis (”Dune” if you’re nasty). Note that the arrival happens 100% “offscreen;” there’s no discussion of spaceports or ships landing, firing their retro-rockets or whatever space-age science was in vogue. I point this out less to poke at sci-fi tropes and more to comment again on how odd this is–the book was published in 1965, at the height of the space race–it seems enormously counterintuitive for that time period to NOT highlight all this stuff.
above, Thufir Hawat by Thomas “Smo” Smolenski
Which I love. BECAUSE the important thing here is NOT that the spaceship has set down, smoke and dust shooting in all directions as C-3PO and R2-D2 standby to secure moorings or something. The important thing is the shift in locale–we are now on Dune. We have moved from safety to menace immediately–now that we are on Dune, life is desperate and close to its end at all times, even for these wealthy people, the nominal ruling class of the planet.
Again, I just want to underline that I think of Dune as an ecological novel. Not so much as a cautionary tale, although there’s surely some of that in there; but again, SYSTEMS. Ecology is just a system of systems acting on a macro scale. And now we have entered Arrakis’ planetary ecology. I really cannot stress this enough–my glasses may be a little rose-tinted on this book, but as we get really into the big meaty ideas of the book, most of which will begin in Round 3, I will be returning to this idea again and again.
Okay, you guys OBVIOUSLY don’t need much help getting a conversation started, so I’ll keep my remarks brief. I would like to point out:
1) These chapters are some of the final expository chapters, so soon we won’t have to endure these conversations where characters remind each other of the political and governmental structures of this or that. I don’t mind it, but I know it can be dreary for some of you new readers.
2) I love love love the way the Shadout Mapes is introduced into the story, this is a primo introduction to the Fremen themselves–note the tension between her and Jessica. Within minutes there is nearly violence between them, and the entire time both are straining to discern clues in their conversation to indicate whether to attack or wait. It’s like Herbert has poked up one seemingly innocuous Fremen–we really don’t know anything about them yet, right?–a housekeeper, a servant, and then suddenly she is posing a real threat to one of the main characters. I love it.
3) What does the Shadout Mapes mean when she calls Jessica “the One?” No spoilers here guys–I’m asking you to read this with a certain amount of naivete. What does it mean that Mapes–and by extension the unseen Fremen society–has ascribed this quasi-religious significance to Jessica, who as far as we know is just some royal guy’s hot concubine? If you’ve read the book before try to pretend you have ONLY the info we’ve gotten up to this point.
4) Dr. Yueh. I’m not a fan of this character, and that’s probably the most boring chapter in the book, where he and Jessica talk and he spends the whole time thinking nervously. BUT note that this chapter gives us more insight into Jessica’s world: we see her using some of these vaunted “Sisterhood” practices that allow her to examine minutiae to make judgments about a person’s motives or plans or whatever. Not mystical: science. Ditto for Yueh’s description of “his” Wanna; he’s picked up enough of this skill to be able to defend himself from Jessica’s apparently razor-sharp senses.
above, the Lady Jessica by Thomas “Smo” Smolenski
5) This is repeated in the chapter with the conservatory–we see the Bene Gesserit system in action, in the person of the Lady Margot Fenring, sending her coded message in a form designed to bring Jessica to it. When we talk about “feminine” magic in the book, this is it–the Bene Gesserit are (to me) by far the most powerful groups in the book, or at least the most INFORMED. This idea of Bene Gesserit teaching soaks the book from cover to cover, so pay attention to it wherever you see it!
above, by Peter Lazarski
6) What does the assassination attempt on Paul show us (again) about the science of the Dune world? Note again how this idea of shield technology exists (as Todd pointed out last week) as a “singularity” that shapes everything technologically from that point forward. In a world where projectiles are useless, all martial technology must work around this idea, thereby shifting the focus of the entire society from open warfare to secret, from snipers and bombs and missiles to poisons and slow knives.
7) Also regarding Paul–his interaction with the Shadout Mapes also is an intro to the Fremen. “You’ve put a water burden on me.” I love that wherever Fremen enter the story, that place is dangerous; whether they are drawn to the violence or it is created by them is rarely clear, but already the Fremen are tinged with danger–just the word is code for “danger” in the story now.
above, by Patrick Keck
Okay that’s enough, I talked too much. You guys pick it up. What did YOU notice in these chapters? Next week’s reading–I’ll pick a place to stop later today–is really going to step things up; this is the last of the purely introductory parts this week.
FOR NEXT WEEK: Read up to the end of the chapter with the long dinner party description. It ends, “No person who’ll be sleeping far below ground level tonight as a precaution against lasguns has the right to boast.” Somewhere around page 150 or so, depending on your edition. Also: I love this chapter, it is chock full of good stuff, lots of interplay/info/exposition without being boring. This is the point where the book starts to really fire up for me, and the NEXT chapter is where it EXPLODES!!
below, by Paul Pope
Category: ART, ART :: Sketches, Dune Book Club!, OPINION, OPINION :: Books 19 comments »
October 26th, 2009 at 8:46 am
2) Every second is life and death with these Fremen folk. They will cut a suckah. Their harsh and fragile way of life has forced them into an unforgiving set of rules or a code. You can tell that Mapes likes Jessica and is hopefull that she is “the one” but she’s also ready to cut her if she’s 1% less than what prophechy/teachings promise. It’s all or nothing with these guys. And building on our prophecy/destiny vs. manipulation arguments from last week- notice how Jessica just lucks into that line about the “maker”. Mapes lets out that “Eieeeee!!!” yell because she thinks Jessica is talking about “THE maker” but Jessica was just talking about A maker of death. Dumb luck or destiny?
3) We know about the missionay protectiva thingy by now but there seems to be more going on. Herbert is usually really heavy handed and obvious with is foreshadowing but with the Fremen he leaves some mystery.
4) I like Yueh and those kind of chapters. Love the chess game they play here. Imperial conditioning vs. Bene Gesseritt. These two are friends (at least in a way) and are both being kind of vulnerable here but still there is so little trust and you can see their philosophies at war. There seems to never be real trust between Bene Gesseritt, Mentat, Suk School etc. They know each other’s tricks to well to trust each other.
6) I love that the technology has been dialed back in way that makes this story relatable. This could take place in almost any time. It’s like Julius Caesar. I love that the Leto’s father was killed by a bull. And what about Jessica’s hatred of Leto’s father?
October 26th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Here’s my drawing contribution to this week’s session:
http://butimawizard.blogspot.com/2009/10/dune-book-club-duke-leto-atreides.html
Leto is one of my favorite characters because he has this dual nature of wanting to be a dynamic leader and father but also a protector. He’s the head of the House Atreides but things still escape his control (the hidden assassin). What we learn about Leto is an interesting meditation on the weakness of leaders…they may feel responsible for any failing of their institution (in Leto’s case, his family) but they are not omnipotent or omnipresent, so degrees of failure are inescapable. Leto seems tortured by this.
I really enjoy the martial aspect of the Dune universe too. Shields make firearms or lasers nearly too dangerous for the attacker to survive (without a Mutual Assured Distruction situation). The slow strike penetrates the repulsor shields to deal a killing strike…this method of combat seems to have extended up into inter house conflicts.
October 26th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Peter– I really like Leto too, and it’s interesting to me that his character could have been shown in many different ways in this book. At least so far, I think he could have been played as a completely unflappable badass… but the choice to use him as a p-o-v character and occasionally show his thoughts gives us a much more complex view of him.
I am really loving this book and am waaay past this week’s section. I’m getting more and more into the setting. The way an entire ancient, interstellar civilization is implied from a very limited viewpoint is fantastic. I know that FH wrote a number of sequels to this, and that his son has continued writing Dune books to further develop the world and history… But there is definitely an elegance in this book and the universe it implies without showing clearly. Does that make sense? I have a kind of fear about my own work of over-developing the setting.
Also Dune is making me slightly neurotic about water conservation.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Evan I agree–as I’ve said, this book is all saturated in my brain pan over the years from re-reading. Though I grew up in “water-rich” North Carolina, I still think about water all the time, wouldn’t think of refusing water to any person asking, regardless, and constantly will view an overfed rich person as “water-fat.”
October 26th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
REPTILIAN THEORIES EXPANDED: http://www.smomotion.com/2009/10/26/dune/
ok but for reals.
i noticed that space travel bit too! but then i thought back on how they all sort of sort of dismissed it as boring and leto was talking about getting a solid nap. it just a commonplace occurrence to the characters and i think it’s pretty great that we’re forced to ignore it as such ourselves. it doesn’t take us so far out of their world as a fantasy place, it keeps us in and looks at the people. great storytelling!
i thought it was sort of dumb though that NO ONE brings up how paul didn’t take the sleeping pill given to him by yueth. seriously guys? someone gave you something to pass out and you blow it off as “oh it’s just yueth, he’s cool.” the kid almost got mowed down by that blood orb from phantasm for pete’s sake!
though that whole section was great! the limitations of technology [like how the swords can go through the shields but not lasers] or how he can stay still and not be seen by the seeker and then physically grab and door it!
OMG WATER DEBT! – mapes
October 26th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Smo! Weird take! Your reptilian Atreides dudes look like their outfits are super skinny…gator necks busting out all over the place. It’s awesome :]
Thufir and the bottom page pencil dude scratching his jowls are my favorite.
October 26th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Smo too, it’s not just that lasers can’t pass through shields. I think it’s more like a laser striking a shield would cause a huge reflexive energy explosion. So you could laser somebody’s shield and kill them, but you’d be blowing yourself up and the whole neighborhood too (maybe the explosion would trigger other reactions and just continue until there was nothing else to spur on the reaction…like the Molecular Disruption Device in Ender’s Game). It seems like people don’t go firing lasers around where they know there are shields out of some established “rules of engagement” or rules of civilized combat, etc.
Or, correct me if I’m wrong folks, do lasers vs. shields behave more like the shooter and shootee blow up (the ones connected by that energy) and no one else?
Either way I think of it as the Mutual Assured Destruction problem with nuclear weapons but on a smaller scale. If you’re close enough to shoot me, you’ll blow up too. It’s a good basis to have an advanced science fiction culture where fencing and hand to hand combat is still the preferred method of fighting.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
1. I find it funny how Gurney is always described as a lump of a man. Like he’s a hunchback or something, lol.
2. I agree with the sleeping pill thing. Like, “Here sonny, you need your rest…take this.” Huh? Always struck me as odd.
3. The shifting of locales, to a dangerous environment, hits like a hammer. Nearly every line written denotes the shift: The arrival; the importance placed on the lack of water; Thufir’s checking and re-checking of the palace; the tense conversation between Jessica and Leto; our introduction to the Fremen via Mapes; the attempt on Paul’s life; Jessica noticing the coded flashes of spys…dire, uncomfortable and just a hint of things to come.
4. Lasers vs. Shields- If I remember correctly (but not a 100% recollection), the interaction of the 2 would generate the force equivalent of a small atomic explosion. A block maybe? Definitely mutually assured destruction at any rate. Anyone know for sure the size of the explosion?
5. Ready for more!!
October 27th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Great drawings guys. I especially like the background in that pic of Halleck.
October 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
love the gurney drawing dustin! his balliset where a machine gun would be is perfect!
October 27th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Great Gurney drawing!!!! :-D
October 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Thanks guys! I think Gurney might actually be a hunchback maybe? I can’t remember. I definitely was thinking of him as one in my drawing.
You’re right about the lasers/shield combo–it’s called “the Holtzmann Effect”, basically a reaction that destroys the target AND shooter. Important a) because of the already-discussed repercussions on all other martial technology/culture, and b) for later in the story.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:25 am
awesome art this week everybody…Pat, I like the dew drop code on that leaf.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Thanks Peter, you make a mean Leto!
October 30th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I accidentally drew his head too big / arms too short. It’s been bugging me all week!
October 30th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
[...] if this is the first time you’ve heard of the Dune Book Club, here’s Week One and Week Two. Feel free to dive into the discussion or just watch from the [...]
November 2nd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
“Anyone know for sure the size of the explosion?”
It’s stated in various texts that the size of the explosion is random and unpredictable, though I’m fairly certain that it’s assured fatal for both parties 100% of the time.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
ok, I’m quickly catching up and will actually have to slow down reading so I don’t race ahead! I’m liking the book so thanks DH for picking it.
The laser/shield thing seems weird to me too, but a good excuse for the different warfare they use – singularity indeed.
I was also struck by how they just appeared on Dune – no travel, no description of the landscape, no desert at first, just the city. Maybe the sand as a “character” isn’t introduced yet – I know it will be huge later.
I really like how the “magic” of the BG witches is really just hyper-awareness and training – like someone above said, science. The idea of seeding prophecies all over the place for later use is great, just great. Jessica’s feeling around the prophecy while talking to Mapes was crazy.
Finally, great drawings all. You are purging the film’s images out of my head and I am very very grateful.
Shouldn’t Gurney’s name be Idaho since he’s shaped like a potato?
November 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Working to catch up. Here are a few of my thoughts, some seeping in from the first section.
- I like how Herbert utilizes the excerpts from Irulan to open each chapter. It widens the scope of the book by showing his audience glimpses of more that is to come and helps to make it feel “more real” for me.
- To a point I made in the first section, it’s interesting how Herbert lays out so much of the conspiracy and plots in these early chapters, AND YET he has one piece of information he is holding back: Jessica’s parentage (Reverend Mother: “he who must not be named” from our first section and the Duke pondering her ancestry to open this section). Why is this the one thing he seems intent on saving for a reveal?
- I love the how the Bene Gesserit seeded prophecy throughout the galaxy in order to help out any B.G. sisters that might find themselves in a hostile/strange environment. It’s interesting in that, this is Herbert turning one of the main conceits of DUNE (that of prophecy) on its head. Having the stories laid out in the far reaches of the universe, stories the B.G. know and can utilize to gain access to strange cultures. It’s like pulling back the curtain on a carny mentalist.
It also goes to a point made in the first comments section that prophecy doesn’t just happen in this book. It has to be worked at, tough choices are made in order for the prophecy to come true. But that’s getting a bit ahead.
- I will add my love to the way that Herbert just glosses over the space travel aspect, in a science fiction novel. Like Tolkien, more in the way her formed his narrative in Lord of the Rings, Herbert eschews the tropes of the genre and tells a far more compelling and lasting tale. I think the fact that he doesn’t belabor the “futuristic” science definitely adds to the strength of this book.
I read DUNE the first time on a recommendation from one of my high school teachers because he knew how much I enjoyed science fiction and Tolkien. I was an SF/Fantasy junkie, and the fact that the sci-fi trappings are so slim with this didn’t take away at all from my enjoyment of the book.
- To Dustin’s point, the Bene Gesserit are certainly the most powerful group in DUNE. And, like those with real power, they do much of their work in the shadows and prefer to stay in the background while the Harkonnens and the Padishah Emperor and the other more “masculine” seats of power prefer to show off with their machinations and conspiracies that are divined by everyone else.
- And doesn’t Frank Herbert the writer like the ellipsis (…)?