Getting these thoughts down, DUNE could almost be seen as an allegory for the Vietnamese conflict (or any other similar insurgency by a larger, “technologically superior” force) Not that Herbert intended that, but it could be read that way.

- Duke Leto. I really liked the characterization of him. We’ve been told he’s honorable and earns the loyalty of those who follow him. It would have been easy to write him as this holier-than-thou figure. But Herbert gives him a ruthlessness (when he is arguing with Paul about Hawat’s failings after the hunter-seeker or when he is conceiving an attack on the Harkonnens’ horded spice, which is a plan of action not readily accepted by his counsellors) that feels very real for the situation and the position he holds, and it makes him more human and more interesting.

- Kynes. Yeah, I really like him a lot too. And I do love having Max von Sydow talking in my head when I read his lines.

- The dinner party is amazing. I could feel the excitement/anticipation in my fingers as I was reading this chapter. The way Herbert makes it all flow naturally from the characters is wonderful. And the use of the Bene Gesserit “awareness” to let readers in on the underpinnings of much of what is said does not come off poorly and adds so much to that tension you mentioned Dustin. Yeah. Really great writing.

I am loving this book all over again.

so i can’t talk much because i’m at a freelance gig pretending i’m working…i even managed to sneak scanning a drawing:

http://www.smomotion.com/2009/11/05/kynes/

believe me i’ll be back to ramble later [s much to discuss!], but for now i LOVE the dynamic of kynes, his smuggle buddy and the duke in this chapter! the dinner party is amazing! i’ve been reading way ahead, things are so intense it’s hard to stop!

that’s all i have time for for now, i’ll be back!

oh and dustin, thanks for including my repilian! and thanks for the credit! feel free to call me just “smo” that’s what most people do, i don’t want you to get keyboard finger strain from writing my whole name out [i just kinda do that to be obnoxious anyway! ha!]! take it easy duners!

Dustin- great Idaho pic. One of the few visual images of him I’ve seen that capture that feline look he should have.

On the law of the minimal- that’s one of the areas where this book has been like a Bible to me. Simplicity is divine and can be as beautiful as something that has been over done or romanticized. Herbert’s writing style is complementary to this. Great lessons in this which parallel a lot of religious and spiritual thought. The first step in most of those schools of thought is the destruction of the ego – or letting go- simplifying – putting the most important first- etc.

Kynes is so very great. Very complex. He’s noble and refined but a bit savage at the same time. The line about having Stilgar send Duncan’s head to the Duke comes to mind. Also something to pay attention to here are his multiple roles and multiple names. We’ll be seeing more and more of this stuff where people have multiple names and those names are basically different people to different people. Some Biblical parallels there to talk about later.

Combative dialog- nice term. Probably what I love so much about Herbert. Some fantastic scenes in this section. Duke vs. Kynes. Duke vs. Hawatt. Duke vs. just about everyone. Poor Duke. That war room meeting scene is just mind blowing. It’s like a one act play all to itself.

Water or Spice? Good question and good answers from everyone. Control spice and you control the universe. Control Dune and you control the spice. Control the water on Dune and you control Dune and can destroy the spice. Round and round we go.

Peter- On the geriatric nature of the spice- there is a part where the Duke is thinking about how just a short time in contact with the spice can make his people immune to most poisons- so, it’s got to be very potent and pretty fast.

The water/spice question hard for me to relate to since I only understand the necessity of water to life. But I may say that water is a scarcer resource on Arrakis right now. Partly because of the frequent mentions throughout of the ubiquity of spice on the desert planet. Spice is in everything…

Another thing that I had to puzzle out was the repeated mention of the “geriatric” nature of spice. Most definitions of geriatric I see describe the word as relating to elderly health care. So it sounds like spice prolongs people’s lifespans or promotes health, but I wonder to what degree. Also, I remember mention of the Guild Steersmen in the early chapters as being mutated or changed because of spice intake. Spice use gradually turns one’s eyes blue, and possibly eventually begins to change your body into other forms. What a weird substance!

I wonder, if spice prolongs life/ensures health to a degree, if it serves as sort of a support to human life in the absence of more abundant water on Arrakis. Could the Fremen and others survive on such a severe desert planet without spice to sustain them as well?

I need to slow down on reading since I’m already ahead of next week’s reading quota. I don’t want to accidentally let something from the future slip.

It’s just obscure enough that it’s not something I’ve ever really been able to expand my thoughts about to anyone else, so the setup here of progressive discovery is really a lot of fun. I wish I’d found it three weeks ago! I promise to keep it to a dull roar.