DUNE is ostensibly a science fiction novel. But like most good genre fiction, the trappings of its genre are little more than a container large enough to hold the story. Dune is not about spaceships or lasers, though both of those make brief appearances from time to time. Dune is not about aliens, though there are some of those too, later on.
Dune is about systems and forces. The most obvious are the systems of peoples within the book: political systems, sociological systems, religious systems. But underlying all of these are ecological systems–remember that the book itself is named “Dune,” the ersatz name of the planet the story takes place on, and from which a bizarredly convoluted epic spins out over the successive books in the series. Don’t worry, we can ignore those for the purposes of our might DUNE BOOK CLUB, but it’s important to point out.
Dune deals mainly with systems and the introduction of forces into those systems. Throughout the novel, the phrase “plans within plans,” and different permutations thereof, is repeated over and over. All things are interconnected, and force exerted on one thing will necessarily impact all other things within that system. If you look at the book in this way, it takes on a whole new life as a rich treatise on politics and ecology, wrapped up inside an epic adventure story. Ooh I’m getting excited just talking about it!\
above, by Pen Ward
I’m not really good at this sort of writing/thinking/discussion-leading, so I’m just going to wing it. I’ll point out a couple of interesting things I noticed and ask a couple of questions–but I’d love to hear what YOU noticed, what YOU are thinking. This is a book with a near-bottomless subtext, so there is plenty to pull out for examination. I just talk a lot, so I don’t want to be all like blah-blah-blah, y’know.
OKAY, I NOTICED:
1) In the first little chapterish thing, Frank Herbert introduces his protagonist (SPOILER ALERT, PAUL IS THE PROTAGONIST, SORRY) and immediately throws him into a seemingly life-or-death struggle. The book begins with a double-dose of mortality and mysticism, a strange beginning for a sci-fi novel written in the 60′s. It makes me think of this excerpt, just after Paul removes his non-charred hand from the black box:
“Ever sift sand through a screen?” she asked.
The tangential slash of her question shocked his mind into a higher awareness: Sand through a screen. He nodded.”
There’s a lot of this verbal/philosophical play in the book, especially in the later, more philosophical sequels. Sometimes it can get kind of cloying, everyone talking to each other with four meanings in their mouths, but it makes dissecting the dialogue more interesting.
above, by Peter Lazarski
2) The second chapter is all politics, another of the important systems in the book. Jeez, it’s super boring too, isn’t it?–after all that secret black box and shadowy Bene Gesserit hoodoo of the first chapter? I don’t mind all the politics stuff, but I think Herbert tried to cram a bunch of exposition in these early chapters, which sometimes works (I love the conversations between Paul and Thufir Hawat and Gurney Halleck in the fourth chapter), but sometimes is just a bunch of jerks giggling to each other about their Important Secret Plan.
3) I think it’s important to point out the quasi-feudal structure of the world of Dune, as laid out in the fourth chapter. Not so much that the politics itself is important, but more what CREATED that structure: something called The Holtzmann Effect. Which, basically, means that you can’t shoot lasers at people or their little shield-thingies will create a quasi-atomic explosion incinerating shooter and shootee and a few miles in all directions. That sounds pretty sci-fi, right? But in one of the few blatant sci-fi moments in the book–remember, it was published in 1965–Herbert effectively removes a lot of that super-science from the rest of his story. Because these shield protect from projectile weapons (guns, et al), and lasers are no good, everyone has to revert to fencing if they want to kill each other. In some ways, Dune is almost a “steampunk” story, anachronisms like swords next to science bits like spaceships.
Ditto the lack of computers in the story, which is just nuts for 60′s sci-fi. Not only are there no “thinking machines” in the story, but there are religious proscriptions against them! They have been replaced by highly trained “Mentats”, basically computer people. Super crazy, making a sci-fi story about a bunch of people who mainly depend on their own wits and abilities.
Who can say what the real purpose of this is, but to me it creates a framework that makes the story somewhat more believable than if people were raygunning each other all the time. It’s interesting to see how Herbert juggles this stuff throughout the book, because it’s not like there isn’t a ton of weird stuff later.
above, by Pat Keck
4) In the first few chapters, we’re introduced to three of the major forces at work in the book: the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood and the Atreides and Harkonnen clans. I was struck at how archetypical these descriptions were; while the Baron Harkonnen is “grossly and immensely fat,” the Duke is “hawk-faced”. Similarly, the Reverend Mother, one of the Bene Gesserit, is described as an old crone, wizened and wrinkled. I’m not sure what my point is, but I guess I’m thinking more on rereading on the tension in the story between how things appear and how they actually are.
5) The idea of eugenics in the book is huge, and Herbert immediately casts a dim eye on it through his main character Paul–”..he felt an offense against… his instinct for rightness.” But having said that, we know from the first chapter that Paul is part of a long chain of breeding for a specific purpose, and at the end of the first chapter he’s revealed to also have “Mentat potential,” meaning he has other advanced abilities at his disposal.
Is Paul supposed to be like a Superman? I don’t necessarily mean OUR idea of Superman, but more Nietzsche’s superman, the ubermensch. Just an idea.
Okay dudes, that’s enough from me, sorry I tend to run on. What did YOU guys think? I’m especially interested in hearing from people who are reading it for the first time–remember, if you’ve already read the whole thing, try not to spill any beans for these guys. It’s not like the book hinges on suspense, but I think it will be interesting to look at things with new eyes and old eyes at the same time.
AND ALSO: remember no swearing or jerkery in the comments please. It’s just how I like things.
AND ALSO ALSO: you artists who have mentioned sketches and stuff, send me those badboys or post links! I’d love to include the images in the actual blog post as we go through the week! My email should be in the sidebar at right.
EXTRA ALSO UPDATE ALSO: For this Monday’s discussion, read up to (roughly, depending on your edition) around page 88-90, to the end of the chapter that ends with “They have tried to take the life of my son!”
Actually I have to retract the strong part of Jessica. Outwardly maybe, but right now in the story, not inwardly.
I do agree with you that there are some parts of the first 100 that do read as out of tune. Hadn't caught his stride or something.
"I think the Jessica character is amazing; in fact, the female characters in the book are all incredibly strong characters, nuanced and complex and for the most part totally tough broads. I’m just saying it’s a failing of Herbert the WRITER, it’s a note that sounds out of tune in an otherwise well-written little symphony." -Dharbin
Gotcha. It's one spot that could have used a bit more focus. You also make a good point in there about the ladies. There have been some pretty outspoken ladies in the past that have condemned the book for giving the women old fashioned servant roles. I don't think any of those people actually read the book. To me, clearly the strongest people in the book other than Paul are all women. But more on that as we move along…
holy bazonkers! i come out of the freelance void and there's 53 comments!?
i'll try my best not to repeat but sorry if i do!
looking at the post itself your #5 struck me a bit. i think there's 2 sides to the royalty/breeding/eugenics coin there, and maybe a bit of social conflict that i'd be interested in seeing develop.
but for all intents and purposes, as exposed through the conversation with the reverend mother, it sounds like Jessica was supposed to have a daughter, somehow she can control this? LIKE A REPTILE and the heat of the eggs? Where's David Icke when you need him? but she had paul because that's what leto wanted. so she's in effect breaking the chain of bene gesserit baby ladies. breaking that selective breeding thing. but then ok she trains him like one. so she's training paul like a girl, gender roles exploded! but leto is a man's man and he wants paul to know how to fight, fair enough. so he gets both schools of thought. they seem to be feeding each other more than conflicting and culminating in his mentat training. it's hard to discern what of the training he has is benne gesserit and what is mentat; ie dudetime or ladyzone? i also think it's more than just gender. the bene gesserit way seems more like say Buddhist or even Hindu philosophy and the Orange Catholic Bible [though we don't know much of what's in it] seems to represent a different element. I don't know if i'd say paul was androgynous, but more socially balanced? i'm excited to see how he interacts with the fremen. i can't tell if he's a snotty rich kid or a humanist yet.
but seriously reptilian humanoids.
also! matriarchal society? hard to tell where the power lies. political power seems to be with the dude bros. but spiritual with the ladies.
oh crumbs! and the whole fued. it seems very feudal, like a hatfield mccoy kinda thing. no one knows where it started, they just know that it is. so they continue it. seems weak but heck it happens in real life! though i'm definitely more a fan of the kirk kahn dynamic personally…
This is one of the coolest things anyone I know has done in quite a while. I'm still reading over everyone's comments and responses, but so far, this is an exciting thing…
I don't want to fall into the trap of arguing individual points, but I think you guys might be making a lot out of this gender/androgyne thing. For one thing, while it's not evident yet, I think those of you reading the book for the first time might be surprised at the actual power and reach of the Bene Gesserit. While I think of their teachings as having a lot of feminine MAGIC, it's not like Betty Crocker and Florence Henderson are in charge or anything. These are some tough ladies, and Paul learns as much about fighting and the control of his body from his mother as he does from the rest of his teachers combined.
I don't point this out to argue–but I think we might be putting blinders on to so separate the two genders so much thematically–there is definitely SOME resonance there, but I don't think of it as being central at all. Just my opinion.
interesting! yeah this is my first read, so right now i'm looking for things that pop out as clues to the social structure and all. when i talk about the feminine i don't mean like prissy or weak per se, just what the women are up to in the society on caladan or wherever they might be. the bene gesserit seem super formidable and i'm pretty curious about the concept of their "order" and it being such a specifically all female thing until paul [or the other males they mentioned that failed] crops up. or how it seems to be separated from male influence culturally. high ranking/holy sounding names like reverend mother are intriguing, it seems like they're functioning within the society yet somehow separate with their own agenda and religion[?].
i don't wanna get hung up though so i'm going to let it unfold. there's already been a lot of allusions cast that jessica becomes extremely powerful. i love the mix of mysticism and technology so far too. there's crazy stuff like giant spaceships and shield belts and then straight fencing and premonitions!
and i think someone mentioned the lack of computers which is pretty rad. i'm actually having a tough time not reading too far, i'm getting into it!
i won't go back over already covered ground further than these following short statements:
-Love is a big sin to the BG sisterhood, and Jessica's betrayal will brand her with a stigma for millenia.
-I don't agree with the characterization of Jessica and other BG trained women in the novel as being there to be used. She says in this part of the book even "I exist to SERVE"
-the androgyny thing is a dead end, in the final analysis. don't waste your time on it.
now to bring back the worldbuilding thing and to postulate as to why the "boring as spit" chapters are actually not boring at all:
This novel, as the eco-treatise it was intended to be, deals mainly (as well as over the whole series, whose books have also been kinda maligned here more than they should be, as they are all excellent and informative and more philosophically biblical than even this tome) with the fluid pressure effects experienced in most closed systems. The scene in the Harkonnen keep between the baron, feyd, and piter is not meant just to set them up as a foil to the Atreides and establish the bad blood between the Houses. It also illustrates the seat in the hierarchy which Arrakis occupies. The political systems being manipulated to gain control of a planet- push here, the effect is seen far over there. The concession of the quasi-fief to the Atreides fief complete sets the Atreides up to lose that fief to a Harkonnen/Corrino conspiracy. The feudal nature of the political system in the novel is especially susceptible to such dynamics, and makes it the prime choice for this novel.
Arrakis actually is, as I see it, the main character in this first book of the novel. It is, after all, called "Dune." the "Muad'Dib" (Paul) book of the novel is later. Even in the first chapter you have everything set up to revolve around Arrakis. Arrakis is the first proper noun in the novel's text. All the action of all the characters in this entire section is in the context of their relation to Arrakis. Paul is going to Arrakis, he must be tested before. The Harkonnens are leaving Arrakis, and leaving what plots behind for the uprisings mentioned in the chapter on Giedi Prime? The Atreides have sent Duncan Idaho ahead as an ambassador to this unknown quantity, the Fremen, representing the wild strength of Arrakis. Caladan is characterized by its very difference from Arrakis in several ways: lush, dominated by water (they grow rice there, thats lots of water), and POOR. The Atreides are by no means here the most wealthy of Houses, and yet they are leaving a world which by the standards of anyone actually living on arrakis to be a paradise of wealth. And yet on Arrakis they produce a commodity which could easily buy Caladan.
Sorry to put this in after the deadline so to speak, hope people read this. it took me longer to read this section the second time to make my notes, haha.
[...] Round Two! Crazy amount of discussion for Round One, and that was for what I think is the least awesome part of the book, so that bodes well. [...]
[...] of which, if this is the first time you’ve heard of the Dune Book Club, here’s Week One and Week Two. Feel free to dive into the discussion or just watch from the [...]
Ok, I'm jumping in late but I'm sure I'll catch up with you guys by next week. I'm already drawing….
Two points that I thought I should make here since I'm still at the beginning.
1. The swords mixed with spaceships can be seen as related to Edgar Rice Burroghs' "John Carter, Warlord of Mars" series. (Hmmm, rice as the Atreides export….). I just listened to the first two as audio books and they have the same weirdness that I'm already seeing in Dune – swords battles alongside some sci-fi tech, some weird and scary religious ideas, big deserty places where wild dudes roam. ERB's books are less sophisticated in a some ways, but they are still really good (at least to listen to).
2. From comment 41: "Jessica mentions that as long as Duke Leto remains unmarried there can be the possibility of alliances with other families through marriage."
Queen Elizabeth of England did exactly this and it worked for her very well.
Warren! Welcome aboard! Hm, I've been looking for some new audiobooks, the John Carter books might be perfecto. I have friends that love those things. I'm excited to hear what you think as you get deeper into the book!
Here's the great part – those audiobooks are on Librivox for free. FREE!
Discovered this last week, and finally got past some "real world" stuff to start reading. Haven't read DUNE in years, a lot of years, so I'm really jazzed to be following along. Hoping to be all caught up by next week's discussion. But here are few thoughts on this initial reading, hope I'm not just rehashing:
- I find it interesting how Herbert opens his book. These first 40-50 pages were all introduction – new characters, new settings, the plans within plans, the connections between all these forces. He's giving us a lot of information without really moving the story ahead. Not complaining here, I enjoy world-building. It's just interesting that he's doing a lot of "telling" for such a long section of the book.
- To that point, I'd forgotten as well that Yueh is revealed so early as the instrument through which the Harkonnens will try to bring down House Atreides. An opportunity for suspense and intrigue – that I believe most writers and editors would take – that Herbert sets forth in the second chapter, along with the rest of the Baron's plan. Herbert is telling us what is going to happen in later chapters. Playing on the use of prophecy that is one of the central tenets of DUNE? I don't know. But an interesting storytelling choice. And I have to agree Dustin, the second chapter does come off as a "look at how smart I am" chapter, almost as if the Baron's (and Piter's) voice is a proxy for Herbert's.
- The anachronistic aspect of the story really works well, I think. The futuristic setting could be off-putting for many, but with the Hotzmann Effect, as you mentioned in a post, sets up a feudal system/reality that is more relatable for the audience. Its familiarity helps to keep readers within the story, while also hitting upon a romanticism that can add to the emotional response readers may have with the book.
- Also wanted to say, DUNE is my favorite science fiction novel and one of my all-time favorites as well. Thanks for starting this up and spurring me to go back and look at this story again with a new perspective. Really loving the new outlook I am getting from this discussion.
Welcome Chris! I agree about the worldbuilding at the beginning, it maybe could have been handled more smoothly. But you raise an interesting point on how Herbert essentially reveals everyone's secret evil plans right at the beginning–it could be an unconscious or conscious choice, yes. I have half an idea in my head that part of the reason is that Yueh and the whole Arrakis fiefdom-change and vendetta and all that are just artifices to get Paul to the desert and Fremen and loaded up with spice. Once that part of the story begins, everything seems SO MUCH smoother, all the pieces click into place and nothing is wasted. I suspect Herbert just plain old enjoyed writing the opening parts less, and spent more of his care and thinking on the meat of the book, the messiah/prescient/ecology parts. Just an idea–good point!
[...] it! For supplemental reading, check out the first post over at DHarbin’s Book Club. If you are reading this and have not caught up–be aware [...]